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Author Topic: Not Again! Another Vanity Faction - Dwarves of the Frozen Plains  (Read 5397 times)
uberursine
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« on: February 10, 2009, 12:04:34 am »

So my insomnia isn't going away, lucky you... Check out my Dwarf Faction...

Dwarves of the Frozen Plains

Living in the far north beyond the mountains, these Dwarves have tamed the mega animals of the frozen plains. Years training Mammoths and fighting the ever present cold have left The Dwarves of the Frozen Plains fearing nothing. Their songs and drums beat out the rhythms of strength to guard all Dwarves.

(Design Notes: These guys are a combo of the Norse theme from the Runegard dwarves and the indeginous Sami and Nenets peoples of northern Russia/Scandinavia. The shamanist ways of the Sami involve drums with symbols very similar to Norse runes. I combined the two into drum songs with rune names. Also, it seems that most families have a reindeer drawn "house" so I make the Reindeer cart core. And who can resist Mammoth units in the frozen plains. I see all the units bulked up to twice their size in furs making them hard to hit with range, and removing the need for a sprint ability.)


Faction Power - Blood of Ice - Dwarfs of the Frozen Plains gain a +2 on all fear based courage checks.


Dwarven Axemen (core)
Offense: (5)5/5 Defense: 2/3 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-4-4
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing.
Equipment: Thick Fur Armor, Axe, Shield

Shaman Drummer (core)
Offense: (3)4/4 Defense: 1/3 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 3-3-3
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing. Cannot drum while engaged. Drum Range: 6".
Songs: Manaz, Thurisaz
Equipment: Thick Fur Armor, Drum

Dwarven Bowmen (core)
Offense: (4)5*/5* Defense: 1/2 Range: 14" Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 3-3-3
(-0) -2/-2 and while Engaged. MC 3.5" when Routing of Final Rushing.
Equipment: Thick Fur Armor, Bow, Dagger

Dwarven Spearmen (core)
Offense: (6*)5*/5* Defense: 2/3 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-4-4
(-1) -0/-0 while Charging. ?(+0) +1/+0 vs. Cavalry and/or Large units. ?(+0) +0/+2 while Holding vs. Charging Cavalry

and/or Charging Large units. MC 3.5" when Routing of Final Rushing.
Equipment: Thick Fur Armor, Spear, Shield

Reindeer Cart (core)
Offense: (4)5*/5* Defense: 2/2 Range: 14" Courage: 12 Move: 5" Hits: 3-2-3
Cavalry. Wheeled. +2 Impact Hits. (-0) -2/-2 and while Engaged. You may use any side of this unit as the front when making ranged attacks.

Dwarven Battleaxemen
Offense: (5)5/6 Defense: 1/3 Range: - Courage: 13 Move: 2.5" Hits: 5-4-3
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing.
Equipment: Thick Fur Armor, 2-handed Axe

Dwarven Walking Armoured
Offense: (4)6/6 Defense: 3/3 Range: - Courage: 13 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-4-4
Defense +1/+1 vs. ranged attacks.
Equipment: Heavy Forged Armor, Axe, Shield

Polar Bear Riders
Offense: (6)5/6 Defense: 1/3 Range: - Courage: 13 Move: 5" Hits: 4-3-3
Cavalry. +1 Impact Hits. (+0) +0/+1 and +1/+0 while Charging (This is in addition to the normal Charging Bonus.)

Reindeer Riders
Offense: (7)5/5 Defense: 1/2 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 7" Hits: 3-2-2
Cavalry. +2 Impact Hits. (+0) +0/+1 and +1/+0 while Charging (This is in addition to the normal Charging Bonus.)

Wisdom Drummer (Elite)
Offense: (3)3/3 Defense: 2/3 Range: - Courage: 14 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-3-3
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing.  Cannot drum while engaged. Drum Range: 10.5".
Songs: Manaz, Thurisaz, Othalla

Wild Mammoth (Elite)
Mammoth: Offense: (5)6/7 Defense: 1/4 Range: - Courage: 11 Move: 5" Hits: 7-5-5
Colossal. Terrifying. Always has the "Close" Standing Order and may not be given a Standing Order Modifier or be directly controlled. To play Command Cards on Wild Mammoth you must first discard two other Command Cards. Wild Mammoth requires two Command Actions to Rally. Cannot be the target of Drummer Songs. (+0) +0/+1, +1/+0, and +2 Impact hits while Charging. (These are in addition to the normal Charging bonus.)

Trained Mammoth (Elite)
Mammoth: Offense: (4)6/7 Defense: 2/4 Range: - Courage: 13 Move: 5" Hits: 6-5-6
Side Archers: Offense: (3)5/5 Range: 10.5"
Colossal. Terrifying. Cannot be the target of Drummer Songs. Trained Mammoth has three sets of attacks that are rolled independently; the mammoth itself (main stat line) and archers mounted on the sides (stat line on side). Attacks can be made againest different targets.
Mammoth Attacks: (+0) +0/+1,  +1/+0, and +2 Impact hits while Charging. (These are in addition to the normal Charging bonus.)
Side Archer Attacks: This is a ranged attack even when Engaged. (Does not recieve Engaged combat modifiers and gets no Free Attacks vs. Routing Units and no attacks on opponents turn.) The archers consider their front arc to be the side of the Mammoth they are on. No penalty for Move and Shoot.


Drummer Songs:
During the command phase choose the song that each of your drummers is playing, The effects of that song last till the begining of your next command phase. While a unit may benefit from more than one song, the same benefit is never applied twice.

Song of Mannaz - The Song of Man gives all friendly units within Drum Range Courage +2

Song of Thurisaz - The Song of Torment gives all enemy units with in Drum Range Courage -3

Song of Othalla - The Song of the Father's Realm allows all friendly units within Drum Range to change orders or rally without a command action.

Special Command Cards:

1x Song of Isa - The Song of Ice lowers the maximum move of all enemy units to 2.5" for one phase, play before opponent's Movement and Command phase.

2x Song of Uruz - The Song of the Fearless Beast grants one of your units +1 Impact hits. Or, pass any courage check.

2x Song of Ingwaz - The Song of the Hero grants one of your engaged units a free attack during the Post-Combat Courage Phase even if the opposing unit is not routing. Give the attacking unit one damage.

2x Song of Raidho - The Song of Riding grants one of your units a MC of 5" when Final Rushing. Or, increase the MC of one unit by 1.

2x Song of Elhaz - The Song of Warding grants a unit Defense +0/+1 vs attacks while engaged or Defense +1/+1 vs ranged attacks.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 08:48:41 pm by uberursine » Logged
RushAss
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 09:58:41 am »

Dude, the points value for these things would be outrageous!  Neat ideas, though.  The Reindeer sled is hilarious.  The Polar Bears are crazy beefy for a cavalry unit.  Perhaps they should be non-cavalry and similar to the High Elven Bear Pack?  And I don't think YMG would ever sanction a unit with 3/5 defense.  The walking armored would be good with just a 3/3 like the Hawk Heavy Infantry.  I don't mean to shoot you down, these are just my thoughts.
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uberursine
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 10:16:40 am »

Thanks, glad you like the ideas. You're right about the bears, way too beefy (or is that beary). I kinda expected these guys to be crazy expensive, didn't think I made them too much tougher than regular dwarfs, but I'll review...

Thanks for the feedback!
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RushAss
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 11:10:49 am »

Here's an idea - Make the Wisdom Drummers just "Drummers" and change the Shaman Drummers to Bagpipers!
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"I have memory and awareness, but I have no shape or form
As a disembodied spirit, I am dead and yet unborn
I have passed into Olympus, as was told in tales of old
To the city of Immortals - marble white and purest gold"
-Rush, Hemispheres
lazyj
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 11:28:33 am »

The Reindeer Cart is an interesting concept. Its a mobile shooting unit so it has penalties for engaging, but it also gains an extra impact hit when it charges. Peasants prepare to die!

I think Rush has got a good point about the Toughness of 5 though. That means those Dwarves are tougher than an Ancient Dragon, a Hydra, a T-Rex, an Elephant, your Mammoth, or Undead Knights. 4 is about the max toughness any official unit is likely to get in BGFW, and it should be pretty rare. I think the only non-Elite that qualifies is the Ancients for the Lizards and they're over 400 points with a 1/4 Defense. 3/5 is crazy unbreakable strong. Maybe if they had that line against shooting but were only 2/3 while engaged?

Bagpipers FTW!
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uberursine
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2009, 11:34:52 am »

Good points guys, I've edited down some stats Armoured and Bears mostly.

Bagpipers? I just don't know... Keep the feedback coming - Stu
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lazyj
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 11:39:54 am »

I forgot to mention that I really dig the background of these guys. I also think the Wild vs Trained Mammoth concept is pretty cool. Thanks for posting!
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gull2112
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 06:56:25 pm »

Would cold drummers be Peart? Cheesy
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uberursine
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 08:18:30 pm »

Would cold drummers be Peart? Cheesy
Only while they are charging, I mean "rushing"...
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Chad_YMG
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 03:30:56 pm »

Comments with a number of point values.  Smiley

Faction Power - Blood of Ice - Dwarfs of the Frozen Plains gain a +2 on all fear based courage checks.

Spend a command action to mark "Song of Elhaz" - You may spend a Command Action to empower one of your units with Elhaz, Song of the Guardian, that unit gets a permanent defensive +1/+1 vs ranged attacks. the mark is erased and the bonus lost if the unit routs.

The Blood of Ice is a nice cookie for units that live with big monsters and aren't easily scared.

Song of Elhaz I don't like for a few reasons.  A lot of times it will be dead.  Other times the opponent will be able to cancel it with a command action of their own (target a different unit).  It will only be really good when someone has multiple ranged units attacking a single guy, which shouldn't ever happen given that you can use the Song so brutally against any such attempt.

If you want to make your guys harder to hit, I'd suggest using command cards that are normal-power vs. non-ranged attacks and buffed vs. ranged attacks.


Quote
Dwarven Axemen (core)
Offense: (5)5/5 Defense: 2/3 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-4-4
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing.

233 points.  This may be slightly too high, as I've charged the Dwarves for the same MC as Runegard.  They get the 3.5" for final rushing and routing, but without the generic sprint ability it could be argued that they should be a bit cheaper.  As a point of reference, they would be 214 points if they only moved S.

Quote
Shaman Drummer (core)
Offense: (3)4/4 Defense: 1/3 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 3-3-3
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing. Cannot drum while engaged. Drum Range: 6".
Songs: Othalla, Manaz
80 points for the unit itself, but obviously what has to be figured out is how much its spells are worth.

Quote
Dwarven Bowmen (core)
Offense: (4)5*/5* Defense: 1/2 Range: 14" Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 3-3-3
(-0) -2/-2 and while Engaged. MC 3.5" when Routing of Final Rushing.
171 points.

Quote
Dwarven Spearmen (core)
Offense: (6*)5*/5* Defense: 2/3 Range: - Courage: 13 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-4-3
(-1) -0/-0 while Charging. ?(+0) +1/+0 vs. Cavalry and/or Large units. ?(+0) +0/+2 while Holding vs. Charging Cavalry and/or Charging Large units. MC 3.5" when Routing of Final Rushing.

272 points, but I'm a bit puzzled by some of the specs.  Why do these guys have one less hit (11 total) than Axemen and why one more courage?  One of the things we normally do with Battleground is to establish a baseline for a faction's infantry and then every deviation from that baseline is explained in terms of something specific, e.g. equipment, training.  Dwarven Axemen should normally be the baseline unit, so having fewer hits would suggest a less dense unit which doesn't seem to apply here.  The point of courage isn't a problem, but it's not clear to me why it's there.

Quote
Reindeer Cart (core)
Offense: (4)5*/5* Defense: 2/2 Range: 14" Courage: 12 Move: 5" Hits: 3-2-3
Cavalry. Wheeled. +2 Impact Hits. (-0) -2/-2 and while Engaged. You may use any side of this unit as the front when making ranged attacks.
An entertaining take on the High Elf chariots, in particular the folks who said, "Hey, chariots were mobile platforms for archers."  My problem is mainly that +2 impact hits is kind of silly if your base stats are falling to 3/3.

Quote
Dwarven Battleaxemen
Offense: (5)5/6 Defense: 2/3 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 2.5" Hits: 5-4-3
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing.

286 points.  Another example where equipment should set the stats -- the Battleaxe gives +1 power on offense, but you've chosen not to give them -1 defensive skill (no shield).  Why?  Also, you've given this unit an extra green hit (in exchange for a red) which suggests they maintain unit cohesion better when taking casualties but they aren't one of the units you've chosen to give above-average courage to.

Quote
Dwarven Frostbeards
Offense: (5)5/6 Defense: 2/3 Range: - Courage: 14 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-4-4
MC 3.5" when Routing or Final Rushing.

309 points.  These guys don't feel distinct enough.

Quote
Dwarven Walking Armoured
Offense: (4)6/6 Defense: 3/3 Range: - Courage: 13 Move: 2.5" Hits: 4-4-3
Defense +1/+1 vs. ranged attacks.

370 points -- estimated, since new abilities are always tricky to cost.  Why are they short a hit compared with other units?

Quote
Polar Bear Riders
Offense: (6)5/6 Defense: 2/2 Range: - Courage: 12 Move: 5" Hits: 4-3-3
Cavalry. +1 Impact Hits.

I wasn't sure if this unit was supposed to get the normal cavalry charge bonuses (plus an impact hit) or not.  Can you clarify?

Quote
Wild Mammoth (Elite)
Mammoth: Offense: (5)6/7 Defense: 1/4 Range: - Courage: 11 Move: 5" Hits: 7-5-5
Colossal. Terrifying. Always has the "Close" Standing Order and may not be given a Standing Order Modifier or be directly controlled. To play Command Cards on Wild Mammoth you must first discard two other Command Cards. Wild Mammoth requires two Command Actions to Rally. Cannot be the target of Drummer Songs or empowered with Song of Elhaz. (+0) +0/+1, +1/+0, and +2 Impact hits while Charging. (These are in addition to the normal Charging bonus.)

484 points.  He's a big boy, isn't he?  Smiley

Quote
Trained Mammoth (Elite)
Mammoth: Offense: (4)6/7 Defense: 2/4 Range: - Courage: 13 Move: 5" Hits: 6-5-6
Side Archers: Offense: (3)5/5 Range: 10.5"
Colossal. Terrifying. Cannot be the target of Drummer Songs or empowered with Song of Elhaz. Trained Mammoth has three sets of attacks that are rolled independently; the mammoth itself (main stat line) and archers mounted on the sides (stat line on side). Attacks can be made againest different targets.
Mammoth Attacks: (+0) +0/+1,  +1/+0, and +2 Impact hits while Charging. (These are in addition to the normal Charging bonus.)
Side Archer Attacks: This is a ranged attack even when Engaged. (Does not recieve Engaged combat modifiers and gets no Free Attacks vs. Routing Units and no attacks on opponents turn.) The archers consider their front arc to be the side of the mammoth they are on. No penalty for Move and Shoot.

Over 700 points, including over a hundred for the missile fire.  Smiley

Quote
Drummer Spells:
Song of Othalla - Give an unit within Drum Range Defense (+1/+1) until your next command phase

Song of Mannaz - Give an unit within Drum Range Courage +2 until your next command phase

Song of Thurisaz - Give an unit with Drum Range the Fearsome trait until your next command phase

My first thought is that I was disappointed that the drum spells worked just like other spells.  Since they are based on sound, I was hoping for area affects, even though I recognize that such things are much harder to cost properly.  That aside, I have a few concerns.  First, Othalla is going to trump the other two most of the time.  Mannaz will occasionally be great, but it suffers from timing -- you only cast spells on your turn which means you'll always have to use it on a unit that might take a rout check, never on one you know is going to.  In many of those situations you're still going to be better off giving a unit D+1/+1 than +2 Courage, since that kind of buff might prevent the check or might keep it from being a check in the red (or prevent the unit from being killed instead of checking in the red).

You also need to clarify how these spells work wrt command cards and with each other.  I would suggest at least the following modifications:

1. All songs create blessing tokens.  This prevents stacking and also makes them a bit worse in general.
2. Mannaz lasts until after the next courage check.  This makes it much better, of course!
3. A unit blessed by Othalla cannot benefit from defensive command cards.
4. Thurisaz lasts until the unit routs.  (Naturally it will also end if the unit gets a different bless.)


Quote
3x Song of Isa - The Song of Ice lowers the maximum move of an enemy unit to 2.5" for one phase, play before opponents Movement and Command phase.

3x Song of Uruz - The Song of the Fearless Beast grants one of your units a MC of 5" when Final Rushing.

3x Song of Ingwaz - The Song of the Hero grants one of your engaged units a free attack during the Post-Combat Courage Phase even if the opposing unit is not

routing. Give the attacking unit one damage.

Isa is too weak to be a command card, let alone one that is a 3-of.  (We don't normally do 3-ofs anyway.)  Sometimes it will be amazing, but usually it will be weak.

Uruz -- good, but MC cards usually need some extra cookie or alternate use.  Compare with Aspect of Wolf.

Ingwaz -- Interesting!  May be way too good, but I'm intrigued.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 10:40:42 am by Chad_YMG » Logged

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lazyj
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 04:05:12 pm »

Wow Chad, that's really cool that you applied the magic formula. Now I really want to test this faction!

A thought regarding the drumming: Like Chad said I think it would be cool to have it be different from spells, and to affect more than one unit. Maybe "area affect" buffs that are slightly weaker?

So instead of +1/+1 on defense for one unit, maybe 0/+1 for all units within 3.5" for this turn / next turn? And when I think of medieval fantasy drums, I tend to think of that scene in the Lord of the Rings where the drums are scaring the crap out of the Fellowship in Moria. Maybe that Thurisaz one can cause all enemies in range to take a Fear check?

I was wondering too if you could say that Mannaz "auto rallies" any unit within X" - like the Wolfkin, and it happens automatically around the drummers. So it would work in the Opponent's phase as well, but then they couldn't drum their next turn.

700 points for Trained Mammoth - Yes! Dragon vs Mammoth in the ultimate grudge match! Live at the BGFW Arena!
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uberursine
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 04:19:23 pm »

Chad you've given me alot to think about (in a great way) I'll be going back thru and tweeking stats based on your "establishing a baseline" statement. These guys should benefit from a bit more of a systemactic approach to the stats. I'll post a new army list this evening. Thanks - Stu
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uberursine
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 08:45:08 pm »

So I'm going to explain my edits then update the original post with the new stats...

Based on Chad's feedback I've tweeked many stats to a slightly more logical progression.

Upon review I agree with Chad that the Frostbeards were boring, so they are gone - replaced with Reindeer Riders

Quote (referring to Reindeer Carts) - "My problem is mainly that +2 impact hits is kind of silly if your base stats are falling to 3/3."

That inconsistency is kinda intentional - The Reindeer Carts are a ranged unit and won't be much good in close combat, but on that first turn your line is being hit by big antlered deer. So in most cases you won't be charging with them, but if you can finish a weak unit with that charge it might be worth it.

Chad, you inspired me, area of effect songs - it's so obvious! Also will probably be expensive, but hey...
----------
Drummer Songs:
During the command phase choose the song that each of your drummers is playing, The effects of that song last till the beginning of your next command phase. While a unit may benefit from more than one song, the same benefit is never applied twice.

Song of Mannaz - The Song of Man gives all friendly units within Drum Range Courage +2

Song of Thurisaz - The Song of Torment gives all enemy units with in Drum Range Courage -3

Song of Othalla - The Song of the Father's Realm allows all friendly units within Drum Range to change orders or rally without a command action.
---------------

Based on feedback I've also changed and added to the command cards

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Chad_YMG
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 11:00:45 am »

Drummer Songs:
During the command phase choose the song that each of your drummers is playing, The effects of that song last till the beginning of your next command phase. While a unit may benefit from more than one song, the same benefit is never applied twice.

Another option would be to say that each unit is affected only by the song closest to it.  On the songs themselves, what about having the initial song selected during deployment (when the unit is given its orders) and then having it cost a command action to change songs?  That would differentiate them more from other spellcasters and would make some sense.  (If the song is treated as part of its standing order, that would happen automatically.)

Quote
Song of Mannaz - The Song of Man gives all friendly units within Drum Range Courage +2

That's a very nice boost.

Quote
Song of Thurisaz - The Song of Torment gives all enemy units with in Drum Range Courage -3

No way!  Well, in theory anything can be priced but I think this isn't going to work out.  Routing is such a big deal in Battleground that every attempt we've made to give courage penalties has shown us not just how powerful that is but how frustrating it can be to the other player, who may not be able to do anything about it.  So far we've only done very limited things (e.g. a command card that gives -1 courage as part of an attack boost).  -3 is simply massive; it turns an elite unit into the equivalent of militia: a unit with 13 courage goes from having an 83.8% chance to pass its check to having a 50% chance!

Other possibilities:
- Enemy units within range treat non-Fearsome units as Fearsome and treat Fearsome units as terrifying.  (The wording is slightly confusing, but basically it makes everyone nearby take fear checks.)  That's still pretty scary, but isn't completely out of bounds.
- -1 Courage for enemies.  (Range would have to be modest.)
- Enemy units must take a courage check when engaging.  If they fail, they are not considered Charging.  (This could have a larger range.)

Quote
Song of Othalla - The Song of the Father's Realm allows all friendly units within Drum Range to change orders or rally without a command action.

I'm torn on this one.  I don't like to make order changes free as a general rule because the tension over how to use command actions and the difficulty of fine-tuning your army's movement is a big part of what makes Battleground work.  However, I could see this working in a modified way, like: "At the start of M&C, all dwarven units within range automatically receive the Close command with no objectives.  All routing dwarven units rally automatically at the end of turn."  This would make it an efficient "sound the charge" option as well as being really efficient on routing units; if they rout on your opponent's turn, they'll be fighting again on yours with no command actions spent, but it doesn't create a "hive-mind" effect.
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David Humphrey está todavía en la Colina 217.
      - From Spanish translation of Hill 218 rules
uberursine
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2009, 12:18:52 pm »

Chad, I really like your suggestions for the songs I'll have to use them
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